{"id":189,"date":"2011-04-27T02:53:42","date_gmt":"2011-04-27T02:53:42","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/unitednotionsfilm.com\/stolen\/?p=189"},"modified":"2013-09-23T14:39:58","modified_gmt":"2013-09-23T14:39:58","slug":"stolen-qa-at-stranger-than-fiction","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/stolenthedocu.com\/?p=189","title":{"rendered":"Interview with the directors"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><a title=\"Stolen: Shining a Light on Modern Day Slavery\" href=\"http:\/\/stfdocs.com\/blog\/comments\/stolen_shining_a_light_on_modern_day_slavery\/\">Stolen: Shining a Light on Modern Day Slavery<\/a><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>by Rahul Chadha, April 07, 2011<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/stfdocs.com\/blog\/comments\/stolen_shining_a_light_on_modern_day_slavery\/\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone\" title=\"Directors with Tom Powers\" src=\"http:\/\/stfdocs.com\/images\/uploads\/StolenQA.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"324\" height=\"216\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p>The morality issue at play in the film\u00a0<em>Stolen<\/em> is Manichean in its clarity\u2014slavery is unarguably one of the most abhorrent crimes that humanity can perpetrate against itself. But as filmmakers Dan Fallshaw and Violeta Ayala discovered, the politics of sharing the stories of slavery they encountered in Polisario Front-run refugee camps in Algeria proved to be much more complicated. After traveling to the camps to document a family reunion in verite style, Ayala and Fallshaw were forced to make a hard turn after being told tales of modern-day oppression; the second half of the film shifts into thriller territory as we watch the pair struggle to tell the film\u2019s story, while also navigating the minefield politics engulfing the continued conflict between Morocco and the Polisario Front. The filmmakers have since come under heavy criticism from some quarters for their handling of the film\u2019s subjects, who later withdrew their consent to appear in the film. But it\u2019s difficult to figure out how much of this and other attacks originated with the Polisario Front itself, which was resistant to admitting to the existence of slavery traditions in their refugee camps.\u00a0<em>Stolen<\/em> perhaps raises more questions than it answers, but does so in the tradition of the best sort of political art. As always, it remains to the viewer to decide exactly where the truth lies. Following the screening, STF Artistic Director Thom Powers spoke with Fallshaw and Ayala. Click \u201cRead more\u201d below for the Q&amp;A.<br \/>\n<em><br \/>\n(Photo: from left, Thom Powers, Violeta Ayala and Dan Fallshaw, courtesy of Simon Luethi)<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>STF:<\/strong> The film was finished two years ago, can you bring us up to date with what\u2019s been happening with you and this film, and with the situations in this film?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dan Fallshaw:<\/strong> The film\u2019s been touring all over the world. It\u2019s been to about 60 or 70 festivals now. We\u2019re still pushing to get it broadcast. With regards to the characters in the camps, they\u2019re still in the camps. Nothing has changed with regard to their lives. There\u2019s more attention on this issue now, and there are more people talking about slavery in the camps and slavery in Western Sahara. It\u2019s funny because when we finished I thought, great, we\u2019re finished with this film, we\u2019re going to get this out there and people are going to talk about this issue and things are going to really change. Two years later it\u2019s essentially the same, only now people know about it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>STF:<\/strong> You were faced with the character Faitim in the film coming out later and contradicting things in the film. Can you talk about that experience?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Fallshaw:<\/strong> When we went to Sydney\u2014it\u2019s in the film, you saw it and know how we felt.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Violeta Ayala:<\/strong> It\u2019s really very tough because we, in a sense, did this for Faitim and her children, and everyone else in those camps. I know that in a sense the film has improved her life because the Polisario tried to prove that slavery does not exist. So they say Faitim is not a slave, and she can travel and everyone can visit her in the camps. Every NGO, every person who comes from overseas goes and sees her, so she\u2019s a little celebrity in the camp. But the other characters are not, and I don\u2019t know what\u2019s going on with them, or what happened to them. We felt sad, but if I go back two years, I would have done the same exact thing. Because I believe that it\u2019s not Faitim who is against the film. Faitim was smiling watching the film in Sydney. I was behind her and I could see her, she was smiling. And she told her mother, at the time, that we didn\u2019t put half the things we told her about slavery in the film, and that she was safe. It was the other ones who were in trouble.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Audience:<\/strong> I\u2019ve been filming a lot in Algeria too and I was surprised because you did show the interviews of the people who incriminated themselves by testifying against slavery who then withdrew their support. I filmed a bunch of gay guys I was staying with in northeast Algeria. They said, you can use this, just don\u2019t let anyone in Algeria see it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>STF:<\/strong> Can you address that difficult choice about what to include?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Fallshaw:<\/strong> In the camps everybody made it clear that they wanted to speak up. Matala and his friends came to Mauritania and they were afraid but they wanted to say something because they were sick and tired of things being like this in the camps. The Polisario knew who we were making the film with.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ayala:<\/strong> We had a Polisario driver who was our minder who was following us all the time. I remember [an interviewee] said to me, I\u2019d rather die than have my children taken away from me, than being raped by an Arab. I\u2019d rather die, and I don\u2019t want to continue like this. And please repeat everything that I\u2019m saying. And we didn\u2019t. People said a lot more than we\u2019re telling you, but we had to protect them. I think if we didn\u2019t make the film, if we didn\u2019t put in what they want, we would be accomplices to the slavery, and this would happen for another 100, 200 years more.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Audience:<\/strong> I\u2019ve spent time in the camps, I was there just this last October-November. One thing that disturbed me in watching the film is a kind of over-generalization. First of all, nobody denies that there has been slavery in this part of the world. What I found interesting is that your focus is on the Polisario and the camps, with a little side thing to occupied territory. The U.N. woman, I\u2019ve seen a larger interview with her about this issue, and she\u2019s saying it\u2019s basically a cultural issue. Nobody denies that slavery exists in this part of the world. The focus of the movie though is that the Polisario is supporting it and maintaining it. That\u2019s what I get from the film. So you keep talking about Polisario and slavery in the camp as if it\u2019s an accepted practice that they\u2019re trying to keep hush hush, when in fact I think it\u2019s a lot more complex than that. I also noticed some mistranslations, and just generalizations. That last scene for example, what was that supposed to say? When it said all we want is liberation and peace? Was she speaking about slavery, writing in the sand?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Fallshaw:<\/strong> The Polisario made their own role in the film, and that\u2019s really what it comes down to. When we first learned about slavery in the camps, we went to the Polisario, naively, and said, can this be happening? We went there in support of the Polisario to make a film about their fight for Western Sahara and we found something different. The problem was, we couldn\u2019t just turn our backs on that. We were detained in the camps because of this. We had to leave the camps because of this. When we went to Western Sahara, we found the same thing there, and we couldn\u2019t say, oh no, it doesn\u2019t exist. So in effect, what you\u2019re saying is about us focusing on the Polisario. We made a film that says slavery exists in the camps, slavery exists in Moroccan-controlled Western Sahara.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Audience:<\/strong> And Mauritania, and Niger and Senegal\u2014the whole area. It\u2019s a broad problem.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Fallshaw:<\/strong> I absolutely agree. The thing is, nobody\u2019s talking about it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ayala:<\/strong> We didn\u2019t go to these camps to make a film about slavery. We went there to make a film about a family reunion, and that\u2019s what we found. And Matala and all of them told us their stories, and I\u2019m not going to turn my back on them. We also made effort to go to Moroccan-controlled Western Sahara, but not to find slavery. We went to talk to Faitim\u2019s mother and find the story from her. And it happened that the black people there were ready to tell their stories to us. We had 20 hours of footage stolen from us, and exchanged for blank tapes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Fallshaw:<\/strong> This is something that these regimes, these governments, these monarchies really don\u2019t want to talk about.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ayala:<\/strong> And the Polisario has been attacking us, what can we do about it. They made their own role in the film. What Leil writes in the sand, I think it\u2019s up to each person to interpret it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Audience:<\/strong> It\u2019s a nationalist phrase\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Fallshaw:<\/strong> So you\u2019re telling me you know what Leil was thinking. I\u2019m not even pretending to know what she was thinking, but you are.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Audience:<\/strong> She wrote a nationalist, liberation phrase. I spoke with the Polisario ambassador in D.C. about your film, and I said, what is this about slavery. And he said, slavery exists still in Western Sahara, no denial.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Fallshaw:<\/strong> So why are they trying to shut the film down?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Audience:<\/strong> It\u2019s absolutely illegal there, they do not accept it. It\u2019s a cultural condition\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Fallshaw:<\/strong> Then why are the black people coming to us to say, help us?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Audience:<\/strong> Because there\u2019s racism there. I experienced racism throughout the whole area.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ayala:<\/strong> But there is a liberation [document] published in the Human Rights Watch report, that says, from this day on the neck of this man is free. And it\u2019s signed by the minister of religious and culture affairs of the Polisario. If this is not an institution than what is it? If it\u2019s illegal, then why on earth is the minister of religion and cultural affairs of the Polisario signing these kinds of documents? It happens in the whole area, we\u2019re not saying it doesn\u2019t happen. But the Polisario need to be held accountable for this, and they need to change. If they say it\u2019s illegal, they need to put some rules, that\u2019s all we want.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Audience:<\/strong> I think it\u2019s a really brave film and you\u2019ve certainly done a good service to your characters, so I commend you for that. I\u2019ve also filmed in the Polisario camps, and I have a lot of friends within the Polisario and outside of the Polisario. I think you left a very important issue out of the film, which makes a large difference. The Polisario army is a government in exile which is not recognized by the international community. It\u2019s an army acting as a government, there\u2019s no democratic space. They\u2019ve been fighting to have their territory given back to them for 35 years. The reason the Polisario was the bad guy in your story is pretty obvious. Anything that talks badly about the Polisario is going to put them in a weaker position to negotiate any possibility to go back to their territory.<\/p>\n<p><strong>STF:<\/strong> Can you talk about the politics of the Polisario and how that affects their position?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Fallshaw:<\/strong> The Polisario are a liberation front, and a left-wing organization fighting for the Western Sahara against Morocco, before it was Spain. And we went to make a film in support of this. But we found something different. The Polisario can be whatever. I\u2019m not against their politics, I\u2019m not against their fight for Western Sahara. What I\u2019m against is that black people in these refugee camps are living in conditions of slavery in which they do not want to live anymore. And they want it to change. When the film was finished, when we went to the Polisario, I thought they would say, we have to fix this, we have to change, we have to bring people in and investigate and do all these things. Why not? If they\u2019re now saying, it exists, it\u2019s a problem, it\u2019s illegal, then stand up and say, slavery is a problem here, it\u2019s illegal, we\u2019re going to get rid of it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ayala:<\/strong> I believe two wrongs don\u2019t make a right. There are a lot of people supporting the Polisario\u2019s liberation struggle. Nobody talks about slavery in this area. I\u2019m sorry for the Polisario, I feel very sad that this is happening in their territory, in their land, as well as in Moroccan-controlled Western Sahara. I\u2019m not going to say, these guys are fighting for independence. I don\u2019t know what I believe anymore about that conflict, I just want the people in Western Sahara and all northern Africa to be free, that\u2019s all.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Audience:<\/strong> I wonder if you could define just what your definition of slavery means.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Fallshaw:<\/strong> When you talk about slavery, people imagine chains, they imagine whips. This is not slavery like that. The chains are in your mind. Faitim loves Deido as much as she loves herself. But Deido took her away from her parents. Deido\u2019s father bought Embarka in a market in Mauritania when she was a little girl, and took her back to Western Sahara to serve his family. She then had children. Those children are then born slaves because their mother\u2019s a slave. Faitim is one of those children. The father gave Faitim to his daughter as a present, and she took her to the refugee camps. These are the facts of slavery, this is what happens. Then Faitim serves Deido her whole life, does what Deido wants.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ayala:<\/strong> Also they say they\u2019re beaten. Matala told us a story about a little boy who the mother wanted to take away from the master. And the master beat the mother. Then the police came and said to the mother, the boy belongs to him so you have to go home. There\u2019s a variation from family to family. In Mauritania there was a slave who was sent by his master to study in Paris to become an architect. He came back to Mauritania and is now one of the biggest fighters against slavery. He said, it doesn\u2019t matter if they put me in a palace, they took me away from my mother and father, from my real, biological family. They get beaten, they get taken away. The man has rights over the women, they can rape them whenever they want. Some masters are good to them, and some masters are bad to them. [A character] said at the end, they think we\u2019re like dogs, that we don\u2019t have feelings like them.<br \/>\n<em><br \/>\n[Q&amp;A has been edited for length and clarity]<\/em><\/p>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"http:\/\/stfdocs.com\/images\/uploads\/stolen_01.jpg\" alt=\"image from STOLEN\" width=\"124\" height=\"93\" \/>Related Film\/Screening:<br \/>\n<a title=\"STOLEN\" href=\"http:\/\/stfdocs.com\/films\/stolen1\/\">STOLEN<\/a> by Violeta Ayala, Dan Fallshaw<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Stolen: Shining a Light on Modern Day Slavery by Rahul Chadha, April 07, 2011 The morality issue at play in the film\u00a0Stolen is Manichean in its clarity\u2014slavery is unarguably one of the most abhorrent crimes that humanity can perpetrate against itself. But as filmmakers Dan Fallshaw and Violeta Ayala discovered, the politics of sharing the [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":210,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[10],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-189","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-news"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/stolenthedocu.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/189","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/stolenthedocu.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/stolenthedocu.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/stolenthedocu.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/stolenthedocu.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=189"}],"version-history":[{"count":16,"href":"https:\/\/stolenthedocu.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/189\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":208,"href":"https:\/\/stolenthedocu.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/189\/revisions\/208"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/stolenthedocu.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/media\/210"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/stolenthedocu.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=189"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/stolenthedocu.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=189"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/stolenthedocu.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=189"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}